wow...If there is any weapons in the game that doesn't need a buff, it is projectile turrets in general.

That means at the kiting range of 18, the autocannon ship is still doing 51% of its damage while the blaster ship is down to 20.9% each having two damage mods, rupture vs thorax, at 18 km the rupture does roughly twice as much damage.

ok i think anyone who's quoting numbers and dps from now on should also include the fit for the omen navy to hit to 41km it needs 2 tracking computers, you can go tracking enhancers but you need 4 heat sinks to get 330 dps and with a 6km fall off you gotta have the tracking computers. Do we count ships that don't have tanks prop mods or tackle in these arguments? because my eft'ed pest gets 1100+ dps without drones and applies damage out to 47km!!

If you increase the range of ac's to compeate with pulse lasers then no one will ever use pulse lasers because the cap could be better spent on other things if another gun will do the job at the same range so I'd like to give pulse lasers a win button so that when they shoot everything dies. You know since we're asking for silly things and making stuff up!

Ok so that last part got a bit silly.

would you ask same for blasters? why not?
Want more falloff take ship with falloff bonuses, or increase falloff with modules.

if anything medium artillery sucks dps wise

some data:
t3 with 6 long range guns 3 damage mods and dps subsystem, all 5 skills, short range t1 ammo
ship/dps/optimal/falloff
proteus: 580 18/23
legion: 588 23/10
tengu: 483 36/15
loki: 397 23/22
411 15/33
411 15/22

So what? I don't agree 100% with the echo chamber and don't accept a hypocritical or dishonest argument so therefore I need to shut up and be censored? I'm honestly trying to have a discourse with you guys to hammer out more than just, 'autocannons are bad mkay' and you guys essentially treat me like an abhorrent monster ripping out your teddy bear's entrails. I can be convinced and I have been convinced that autocannons need a buff, but you wouldn't know that because you don't post here and just assumed that I'm here to enforce a false dichotomy(which is probably just projection on your part).

I also never tell anyone that they need to be censored. I may stop discussing an issue with you, but that's hardly the same.

The fact is, the only evidence I've seen that properly illustrates why autocannons are disadvantaged has only been provided to me by James Baboli. He provided me with hard numbers that showed the autocannon T1 ammunition has little to no point from a DPS perspective to switch from short range ammunition at any range.

So if you're not willing to defend your point then why are you here? That's what the board is for.

Edit: Great, now I don't get to see what that other guy was going to post stifling the discussion. Thanks for the censorship.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel about adding falloff bonuses to projectile ammo instead of the autocannons themselves? I haven't run the numbers, and I know that arties would have to be dealt with as well, but I'm thinking 0% falloff bonus for short range ammo, 50% falloff bonus for medium range ammo, and 100% falloff for long range ammo. This would give you an actual choice (do I want tracking, range, or DPS?) as opposed to the comparative non-choice you have now (do I want DPS or Barrage?)

If this was a straight swap (i.e. ditch optimal and go exclusively with falloff), arties would need a rebalance. If it was an "either/or" addition (i.e. arties get optimal, ACs get falloff), I think it could work with minimal headache.

Going back to the rax vs rupture, the rupture can fit its largest close range weapons, a mwd and tank with the full array of tackle, 3x damage mods, a TE and a med neut. The rax cant do this, it must downgrade the guns so it gets half the range of the rupture, it must get into scram range to do its damage and that also means getting into neut range which is not a happy place to be for something with cap hungry weapons. Worse still is if you decide to plate your rax, and most do, and you want to go with 3x damage mods that leaves you with two low slots to play with so chances are that explosive resist hole is going to be wide open. Said fusion rupture is also out damaging the null rax so if your rupture is packing an AB the mwd rax is in real trouble as it cannot dictate range once it enters scram range which it must do because of its blasters. If the rax is AB fit and your rupture is mwd you can just stay at range and pick it off.

You get 3 minutes in the rupture, the rax will cap out long before the rupture does. Fit an AB on the rupture, replace one LSE for a web, replace disruptor for a scram. Force the rax into a position where it cannot use its firepower while you can use yours and dictate the range. Rupture also has the option of running some Ewar, a tracking disruptor used on a ship with an already small engagement range. Armour rupture is great for this job.

There are plenty of options out there for dealing with blaster boats for auto ships.

The problem with the vexor has more to do with the sentries than the ship itself.

Do go on about how a 40% drop in optimal doesn't hurt the rax or that an armour rupture is impossible to comprehend.

Thats not what I was advocating.


[Rupture, Rupture fit]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Explosive Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Script

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


It is more mobile when tackled than your rax, it will out damage your rax thanks to the tracking disrupter and cap stable without the neut so you can pulse it and its tank is greater. Can you kill it? sure, but flown well its more than a match for a rax.

So use a stabber then and simply kite away to your hearts content if the rupture is too much of a risk for you to handle.

35.3k ehp vs hybrids. You keep keep him at a range where he cannot use antimatter, you pop his drones with your own. See, this is where piloting and experience comes in, EFT won't teach you this.

More solo kills means squat. Yes, you are an EFT warrior. You are not the type to think up new fits and tactics, you just copy. The bulk of the EVE playerbase do this. The few who do come up with new fits and tactics are the people who make names for themselves.

So if they are so bad why are they ALL on par with the other ships out there or better?

The cynable, Vigilant, phantasm, gila and ashimmu are all old ships. Most pirate faction ships are not new, what you said was a lie.

If you notice, barrage is quite a bit longer range than blaster boats and its ammo hits most blaster boats in its weakest resists.

I'm not a goon, and I really don't see the point of arguing this further with people who are incapable of being convinced or providing substance for their claims.